In an exclusive eLocal Conversations interview, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters speaks with eLocal founder Mykeljon Winckel about rebuilding the New Zealand economy, establishing a sovereign wealth fund, restoring control over banking and energy, reforming Treaty institutions and putting New Zealanders at the centre of national decision-making.
Making NZ FIRST a REALITY
Winston Peters on Sovereignty, Prosperity and New Zealand's Future
In an exclusive eLocal Conversations interview, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters speaks with eLocal founder Mykeljon Winckel about rebuilding the New Zealand economy, establishing a sovereign wealth fund, restoring control over banking and energy, reforming Treaty institutions and putting New Zealanders at the centre of national decision-making.
eLocal Conversations | Mykeljon Winckel with Rt Hon Winston Peters
New Zealand is a country rich in natural resources, agricultural capability, human talent and economic opportunity. Yet for decades, its productivity performance has disappointed, essential infrastructure has become increasingly expensive, and questions about who benefits from the nation's wealth have grown more urgent.
For New Zealand First leader Winston Peters, the answer begins with a word that runs throughout his political philosophy: sovereignty.
In this wide-ranging conversation with eLocal founder Mykeljon Winckel, Peters outlines an economic vision built around national ownership, resource development, productive investment, higher wages and a renewed commitment to New Zealand's long-term prosperity.
The discussion moves beyond election slogans to examine how New Zealand could regain control over its economic future, drawing lessons from countries such as Norway and Singapore while confronting the political decisions Peters believes have undermined the nation's independence.
The Norway Opportunity
The conversation begins with Norway, a country whose transformation through petroleum development and long-term investment has become an international example of converting natural resources into national wealth.
Winckel raises the prospect of New Zealand adopting a similar approach, questioning why a resource-rich country has struggled to build comparable financial security for future generations.
Peters argues that Norway made a fundamental decision that other countries failed to make: rather than spending the proceeds of resource development immediately, it invested a substantial share for future generations.
He contrasts that decision with the United Kingdom's approach to North Sea oil revenues under Margaret Thatcher, arguing that the different choices produced profoundly different long-term outcomes.
For Peters, the opportunity is not simply to discover and exploit natural resources. It is to establish the institutions that ensure New Zealanders retain the benefits.
He proposes a sovereign investment fund managed independently of politicians by experienced investment and business professionals.
The objective would be to create a permanent national asset capable of supporting prosperity across generations.
Becoming an Export Powerhouse
Peters identifies economic growth as one of the most important missing elements in contemporary political debate.
He argues that politicians frequently discuss growth without identifying measurable targets or explaining how they intend to achieve them.
His proposed solution begins with rebuilding New Zealand's export economy.
"We have to become an export powerhouse," Peters tells Winckel.
But increasing export volumes alone is not enough. Peters argues that New Zealand must add greater value to the goods and services it sells internationally, creating skilled employment, higher incomes and a larger share of economic returns within the country.
He sets out an ambitious objective of expanding the New Zealand economy from approximately $455 billion to $900 billion over 24 years.
That figure represents Peters' stated economic target, rather than an independently established forecast.
Underlying the proposal is a rejection of the idea that markets alone will necessarily deliver national prosperity.
Peters argues that successful economies have benefited from deliberate national planning, strategic investment and political leadership prepared to identify opportunities for productive development.
Who Controls Our Money?
One of the interview's most significant discussions concerns banking and financial sovereignty.
Winckel questions New Zealand's dependence on commercial banks and the wider consequences of allowing much of the country's financial activity to be controlled by overseas-owned institutions.
Peters responds by focusing on the potential of Kiwibank.
He argues that New Zealand should strengthen its nationally owned banking capacity and use government and local-authority banking arrangements to increase the scale and profitability of a domestic institution.
His argument is straightforward: financial transactions involving New Zealand taxpayers and ratepayers should, wherever practical, generate benefits for New Zealand rather than transferring profits offshore.
Peters discusses using Kiwibank, bonds and other financial mechanisms to achieve greater national banking control.
He describes sovereignty as the central principle behind this approach.
The broader question is whether New Zealand can develop a financial system that serves domestic productive investment while retaining more of the resulting wealth.
Singapore's Lesson
Singapore provides Peters with another example of what deliberate national economic development can achieve.
He recalls a period when New Zealand assisted Singapore through the Colombo Plan and contributed to its defence.
Singapore subsequently developed into a high-income economy with a strong international commercial presence.
Peters attributes much of that success to leadership that recognised the population as the country's greatest resource.
He argues that investment in education, training, employment and higher wages creates the conditions necessary for productivity growth.
Rather than treating wages simply as a cost to be minimised, Peters sees higher incomes as an incentive for businesses to invest in efficiency, skills and innovation.
His position challenges the assumption that low labour costs are necessarily an advantage for economic development.
For New Zealand, the implication is that productivity and prosperity must be developed together.
Energy Independence
Energy security occupies a central place in the interview.
Winckel raises the closure of the Marsden Point oil refinery, New Zealand's dependence on imported refined petroleum products and the consequences of high electricity prices for households and businesses.
Peters strongly criticises the refinery's closure, arguing that it represented a failure to prioritise national resilience and long-term energy security.
He also identifies the structure of the electricity market, particularly the vertically integrated generation and retail companies commonly described as gentailers, as an obstacle to restoring competitive energy prices.
Peters argues that New Zealand once enjoyed a significant energy-cost advantage that supported manufacturing, business development and household living standards.
He believes restructuring the electricity sector could help restore that advantage.
The conversation also examines the possibility of discovering additional domestic petroleum resources and ensuring that any future proceeds are managed for national benefit.
Peters returns to the Norwegian example, warning that resource wealth can be squandered if governments fail to establish appropriate investment arrangements.
The underlying issue is not simply whether New Zealand possesses sufficient energy resources, but whether it has the political will and institutional structures to use them in the national interest.
Accountability and Public Works
Winckel raises the possibility of restoring a Ministry of Works-style approach to infrastructure development.
Peters responds by criticising cost overruns and what he regards as inadequate accountability in major public projects.
He refers to Transmission Gully, the Pūhoi-to-Warkworth motorway and Auckland's City Rail Link as examples of infrastructure spending that deserve closer scrutiny.
His argument extends beyond individual projects.
Peters questions whether New Zealand's public-sector contracting, project management and political oversight arrangements sufficiently protect taxpayers from avoidable costs.
He contends that governments must be held responsible for the decisions they make and the financial consequences that follow.
For a country seeking to rebuild its productive infrastructure, the efficient use of public money is an essential part of the economic equation.
The Pandemic and Its Consequences
The interview also addresses the economic and social consequences of New Zealand's COVID-19 response.
Winckel recounts the severe impact on his own media business, describing how the loss of advertising customers forced substantial changes to the operation.
Peters criticises the duration of lockdowns, the treatment of protesters and the conduct of political and media institutions during the pandemic.
He argues that the official inquiries have not adequately addressed the decisions made or established sufficient accountability.
Peters calls for a more comprehensive examination of the pandemic response.
These are Peters' assessments and allegations, expressed during the interview, rather than findings independently established by the conversation.
For Winckel, the subject remains connected to the wider question of whether government decisions properly considered the consequences for small businesses, communities and individual livelihoods.
The Treaty Debate
A substantial portion of the conversation concerns the Treaty of Waitangi and the interpretation of its historical meaning.
Winckel raises the Littlewood document and questions surrounding English-language drafts and subsequent translations.
Peters responds by referring to the historical writings of Sir Āpirana Ngata and advancing his longstanding interpretation of the Treaty as an agreement involving the cession of sovereignty and the establishment of equal citizenship under the Crown.
He strongly disputes modern interpretations involving partnership and criticises what he describes as judicial activism and historical revisionism.
These interpretations remain contested in New Zealand's legal, historical and constitutional debates.
Peters outlines New Zealand First's proposal to abolish the Waitangi Tribunal within three months of an election and replace it with a Treaty of Waitangi Completion Commission.
He says the proposed commission would address approximately 2,200 outstanding matters and establish a process for bringing historical claims to a conclusion.
The proposal represents a major change to the existing Treaty settlement framework and would require legislative action.
For Peters, the objective is to move beyond continuing grievances towards a system he believes would provide certainty and equal citizenship.
New Zealand's Place in the World
Turning to foreign affairs, Peters describes the international environment as the most unstable since the Second World War.
He warns that the rules-based international order is under increasing pressure and argues that smaller and medium-sized countries have a particular interest in preserving it.
He invokes Winston Churchill's preference for negotiation over conflict, emphasising diplomacy as an essential instrument for maintaining peace.
Peters also highlights New Zealand's relationships with Pacific nations, describing the region as the country's immediate strategic neighbourhood.
He argues that engagement with Pacific countries is important not only for security and diplomatic influence but also for economic opportunity.
The message is that a sovereign New Zealand must remain internationally engaged while protecting its own interests.
Immigration and Skills
In the closing stages, Winckel asks Peters about immigration.
Peters argues that immigration policy should be based on clearly identified economic and workforce needs rather than relying on large-scale migration as a substitute for domestic training.
He says New Zealand's first obligation should be to educate, upskill and employ its own young people.
Where genuine skills shortages remain, immigration should help fill those gaps.
His position links immigration directly to the broader economic programme discussed throughout the interview: higher productivity, better wages, workforce development and long-term national planning.
Will This Make NZ Stronger?
The central proposition emerging from the conversation is that New Zealand's future prosperity depends on decisions made within New Zealand.
Peters' programme combines several distinct proposals: establishing a sovereign investment fund, strengthening national banking capability, developing domestic resources, restructuring energy markets, increasing export value, improving workforce skills and reforming major public institutions.
These proposals raise important practical questions about financing, implementation, environmental obligations, legislative requirements and the balance between national ownership and international investment.
Their success would ultimately depend on whether they could deliver measurable improvements in productivity, incomes, resilience and living standards.
But the broader challenge deserves examination regardless of political affiliation.
Can New Zealand create more wealth from its own resources? Can it retain a greater share of that wealth? Can it develop a high-wage economy that offers its young people better opportunities? And can public institutions be made more accountable for the decisions that shape the country's future?
Those questions go to the heart of national sovereignty.
For Peters, the answer begins with a renewed determination to place New Zealand's long-term interests at the centre of economic and political decision-making.
For viewers, the interview offers an opportunity to hear his arguments in detail and judge the proposals for themselves.
Watch the full eLocal Conversations interview: Making NZ FIRST a REALITY, featuring Rt Hon Winston Peters and Mykeljon Winckel.
Source: eLocal Conversations — Interview with Rt Hon Winston Peters, approximately 35 minutes. Transcript supplied by eLocal Independent News.